Second Sigma SD1 thoughts..

These days I had these sweet dreams of pixel free images that I can print as big as I like without ever having to think twice about stuff like resolution. The SD1 really will be a game changer for anyone that love photography – and if my long talks with the brains behind the foveon sensor is true, and if those shots that you and I have seen printed (you, thru my videos) then this will truly be something spectacular and something that I only could wish for but that would MAYBE be on the horizon for 2020. And the fact that EVERYTHING with this sensor has improved makes it so much more interesting. (ISO, shutter speed, DR etc)

Did you know that this sensor is 35% larger than what we have today?

Now, I haven’t been able yet to see any of these image files on screen, but I must say that normally stuff look better on screen than on print, right? But I have a hard time to imagine what these files will look like as prints looks this good.

Also doing the math with printing. When I print SD14 / SD15 / DP1 / DP2 files I normally export from Sigma Photo Pro as double size output – that gives me a 4.6MP x 4 sized file that is a perfectly useable 18MP file. Doing the same thing with a 15.4MP file gives me an equally fine file for printing but this time as a 61MP sized file (9600x6400px). And at 180DPI (Epson sized dots) it should look very good for the most demanding user at 125x90cm print. Now I did film a much larger SD1 print at the fair (as you might remember) and that one looked tremendously good so I’m pretty sure I’m correct about above numbers)..

I’m excited. Very excited. If February and the current price point around €1500 is true then we’re in for some really exciting times. I’d also like lens makers such as Carl Zeiss to start making SA mounted glass! Sigma is making better and better glass but I’d like more options.

Alright, back to whatever I’m doing.

About Carl Rytterfalk

Welcome to my blog! I'm Carl Rytterfalk, a swedish photographer who loves everything that is interesting in the world of photography. In 2002 I fell in love with the three layered Foveon sensor and has since then been an addicted user of Sigma cameras. Though I use Canon and Nikon as well. :)
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86 Responses to Second Sigma SD1 thoughts..

  1. Larry says:

    I’m putting money away starting this week. Ill be buying one the day they are released!

    • Larry Ellis says:

      Hi Larry, its Larry from the future.

      I’m here to let you know that it wont be until Feburary 19 2015 that you finally get an SD1.

      You make some silly mistakes along the way with some of your gear, selling cameras you should’ve kept, buying others you should have avoided, but in the end you learn from your mistakes and that’s what’s important.

      I cant give you any tips on bets, that wouldn’t be right, but i’ll warn you that you’re getting married on April 11th 2015 and there is still no hover cars or jet packs.

      Google rules the world and Microsoft built a moon that orbits the earth that they launch all their new software from.

      The earths population is now 25 billion and its now law to car pool and share showers. So start practising holding onto that soap!

      I have to go now, a wave updates have been launched from the microsoft moon and an attack is imminent.

  2. Clive says:

    Carl, simply great idea about Zeiss making lenses in the SA mount. They would like to be associated with something great, I imagine, and market is always a factor, esp. with their own camera situation. And an SA mount should be very easy from their Canon mount.

    I wonder if it would work that you should contact them yourself, as an acknowledged fine photographer?

    Also, I seem to read Kazuo Yamaki as saying not necessarily February, but spring. We will hope for your privilege with a prototype, of course.

    Regards,
    Clive

  3. Richard Box says:

    So the sensor is 35% larger than the current x3? which is just smaller than aps-c sensors. Does this make it Full Frame size? Or slightly smaller?

  4. Clive says:

    p.s on the Zeiss thing – they have a new line of lenses called ‘Compact Primes’, and these have ‘interchangeable mounts’ by their own advertising.

    http://www.zeiss.de/c125756900453232/Contents-Frame/042839dea0e28e5fc125756f003e6703

    also mentioned in this Luminous Landscape show report, which also contains the SD1 where they are snide as usual – of course they are as wever snide about most everything, including Hasselblad ;).

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/mark_dubovoys_photokina_blog.shtml

  5. This is a fast view of sensor sizes on some common cameras. SD1 sensor is bigger than Nikon D300 / D7000 and Canon 7D but smaller than full frame and almost full frame cameras such as the Canon 1D mark III.

    [img]http://www.rytterfalk.com/wp-content/sensor.jpg[/img]

    4/3 is quite a bit smaller compared and that’s true with the old SD15 sensor.

  6. JoshuaChuang says:

    I am also waiting for the release date. But I am a little worried about the wide angle. Hope sigma could release photo sample online quickly.

  7. Ricky says:

    I’m sorry to say that, but to be honest Sigma SD1’s sensor is 24×16mm, and Fx17-78-F13 is 20.7×13.8mm. So taking the longest side and resolving it’s 20.7:24=100:x; new sensor=100*24/20.7=115,942029…% the old sensor. That’s almost the 16% bigger, but not beyond.

  8. JoshuaChuang says:

    Well, while use wide angle lens, the light is not all straight. I heard that Foveon senors need direct light more than bayer sensors do. Also, SD1 has much smaller cells (5um), while the light is not direct, the sensor gets less information compares with SD15.

    So I am eager to see the digital sample from sigma. Hope it will be shown too quickly :-).

  9. AlexI says:

    Ricky: I’m sorry to say that, but to be honest Sigma SD1′s sensor is 24×16mm, and Fx17-78-F13 is 20.7×13.8mm. So taking the longest side and resolving it’s 20.7:24=100:x; new sensor=100*24/20.7=115,942029…% the old sensor. That’s almost the 16% bigger, but not beyond.  

    Ricky,

    I disagree. Since it’s the surface sizes we’re comparing, we’re measuring areas. Therefore, let me modify your formula a bit. Old sensor is 20.7*13.8=285.66 Sq. mm; new sensor is 24*16=384 Sq. mm. 384/285.66*100=1.3443 -> 134.43%, or 34.43% bigger. I’d say a hefty increase.

  10. Ricky says:

    AlexI:
    Ricky,I disagree. Since it’s the surface sizes we’re comparing, we’re measuring areas. Therefore, let me modify your formula a bit. Old sensor is 20.7*13.8=285.66 Sq. mm; new sensor is 24*16=384 Sq. mm. 384/285.66*100=1.3443 -> 134.43%, or 34.43% bigger. I’d say a hefty increase.  

    you’re right. thank you for the simply elucidation

  11. NewbieSD9 says:

    Euro 1500, i reckon in two years, cause that’s how long it will take me to save , hopefully will be about Euro 1000. Start saving now that’s about Euro 10 a week hehe :-))

    If the printed version of 4×15.4mp (61.6mp) looks as good as the 15mp in 125x90cm sizes … boy !

  12. Anonymous says:

    AlexI: Ricky,
    Since it’s the surface sizes we’re comparing, we’re measuring areas. Therefore, let me modify your formula a bit. Old sensor is 20.7*13.8=285.66 Sq. mm; new sensor is 24*16=384 Sq. mm. 384/285.66*100=1.3443 -> 134.43%, or 34.43% bigger. I’d say a hefty increase.

    </blockq

    34% increase, Olympus Cross hair AF (?), ISO, DR up woooooo
    AlexI: Ricky,
    I disagree. Since it’s the surface sizes we’re comparing, we’re measuring areas. Therefore, let me modify your formula a bit. Old sensor is 20.7*13.8=285.66 Sq. mm; new sensor is 24*16=384 Sq. mm. 384/285.66*100=1.3443 -> 134.43%, or 34.43% bigger. I’d say a hefty increase.

    uote>

  13. JoshuaChuang, Not sure that the direct light you’re referring to is a real problem, I know it’s been with cameras like the DP1 and slightly on the DP2 much because sensor is big and lens is extremely close but that’s been true with Leica M8 / M9 as well. They sorted that by making the sensor slightly curved ending up with a pretty expensive production cost. Sigma more or less mapped the problem by neutralize with colored vignetting. (Green colors in corner equalized with magenta vignetting and you end up with a neutral normal in-between).

    I don’t think there is, and I never heard of anything else than cost issues with large, say full frame foveon sensors.

    If someone else knows more, please add comments.

  14. Ricky, thanks for trying to do the Math, and thanks Alexi for helping Ricky out. :) I was on the run and became quite nervous that I made such easy mistake. I’m happy it’s still 34%. Sounds so much better than 16%. :D

  15. AlexI says:

    Ricky, Carl, no problem ;)

  16. This one shows it a bit better.. :D
    [img]http://www.rytterfalk.com/wp-content/film.jpg[/img]

  17. JoshuaChuang says:

    I try to translate some words from Sigma CEO.
    (http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100925_396114.html)
    I do not know Japanese, but someone has translated these to Chinese.
    (http://0rz.tw/T8JMC)
    So I just try to post it here.

    Some interesting detail from CEO of Sigma.

    1. 1.7x -> 1.5x is not so difficult, the reason of using 1.7x is because SD9 uses, and sigma just don’t change it until now.

    2. At the very beginning, sigma did not want to use 1.7x size. But while Sigma wanted to choose the Foveon sensor for SD9, there is only one size developed (which means Foveon company did not have any other size of Foveon sensors), which is a 1:1 sized sensor. Since the schedule is urgent, they could not change the structure a lot. After some discussions, Sigma and Foveon cut off the upper and lower side of the 1:1 sensor. The result is a 3:2, 1.7x Foveon sensor for SD9.

    3.Although Sigma was the only customer of Foveon, Foveon did not put lots of resource on developing large size sensors which Sigma demanded eagerly. Instead, Foveon put their all resource on developing small size sensors for mobile-phone. Sigma had no choice but bought Foveon.

    4. The big improvement of pixel number of SD1 sensor is because Sigma now has the knowledge of Foveon on how to make small cell sensor for mobile-phone. This kind of know-how could just be used to develop high resolution Foveon sensor.

    5. Sigma says the Foveon sensor could be a product. But Sigma does not have resources to support sensor customer and there is no customer demand right now. But if there exists some customers which want to buy Foveon sensor as a product, Sigma may take them into consideration.

  18. Silvercat56 says:

    Well, I am just putting away some money to get one as soon as it will be available. About wide lenses, as I took my SD14, I could only shoot with the lens that came with it, a Sigma 15-30, which I think is a very very good lens, crisp and detailed, with a reasonable wide angle. I was used to shoot with an EOS 50D, a fast camera with very good performances, but not comparable with SD14 about the final result. The sigma is a lot better, more detailed without working in post production. I develop raws with SPP, setting it in auto, and if the shot is well done, as it should be, the result is fantastic. On the contrary, Canon shots need more and more control both on DPP and/or Potoshop. Beside that if the light condition are not so good, read poor light condition, you get a lot of chroma noise, also when using a flash. Have to try the SD14 in the same conditions, but I haven’t seen any chroma noise yet, also in poor light conditions. The shot seems to become a little flat, not so crisp as usual, but it is simply to recover with SPP.
    Please pardon my bad english, a little rusty….

  19. Bengt Werner says:

    Hi Carl!

    What wonderful news you told me this day I can hardly wait until it will be released, but be for sure, I will certainly buy SD1.
    My sale of SD14 picture is a good investment in the new Sigma camera. Ihope it will be less prone to dust on the sensor, and work faster.

    Bengt

  20. Do you know if the max-sync speed has increased on the SD1?

  21. NewbieSD9 says:

    Pentax 645D MF (approx Euro 8K) is 44 x 33 mm 40MP one layer CCD sensor.
    It’s not proper 645 cause proper 645 is 60 x 45 mm (in real terms 56 x 41.5mm)

    Still at 44 x 33 mm = 1452 sq mm
    SD1 24 x 16 mm = 384 sqmm

    Pentax 645D about 3.78 times the surface area of the SD1.

    BUT … i think the equalizer will be SD1 is a 3 layer sensor, Pentax 645D is just 1 layer.

    So if the SD1 upsized in SPP to 61.6MP ( 15.4MP x4 )
    can at print say 60 inches x 48 inches
    match the Pentax 645D for non pixellation, subtle detail, nuances, tone
    when shot at the same subject within minutes of each other
    SD1 is gonna be an amazing cam.

    Hopefully SD1 will do it :-))

  22. NewbieSD9 says:

    Or if we want to go reaaalllly craaaaazy

    Hassleblad H4D-60 (approx Euro 30k) 53.7 X 40.2 MM 60MP sensor

    53.7 X 40.2 MM = 2160 sq mm
    About 5.625 times surface area of SD1 (24 x 16 mm = 384 sqmm)

    So if the SD1 upsized in SPP to 61.6MP ( 15.4MP x4 )
    can at print say 60 inches x 48 inches
    is close to Hassleblad H4D-60 for non pixellation, subtle detail, nuances, tone
    when shot at the same subject within minutes of each other
    SD1 is gonna be an amazing cam.

    Hopefully SD1 will do it :-))

  23. NewbieSD9 says:

    & guess woooot … i just read Hassleblad in 2011 is planning a sensor to behave a bit like the Foveon

    “Most digital cameras capture color with a checkerboard of color filters called a Bayer pattern over image sensor pixels; each pixel captures only red, green, or blue color information. The multishot technology shifts the sensor so the same pixel can capture each of the colors, ridding the camera of the need to mathematically infer the missing values of red, green, and blue.”

    If Sigma in three to four years can do a Foveon 60MP 645 MF (56 x 41.5mm) … boy oh boy.

    I think mebe Hasslbald should form a partnerships with Sigma :-))

  24. Marc says:

    Don’t think you should directly compare it to a Hasselblad … but if you think about the SD1 as a compact format camera, easy to transport (and let’s face it … who would like to walk around in the street with a 30K camera?) which presents Image quality similar, yet on a smaller scale than a Hasselblad, it is a great camera. Part of the quality of Medium Format comes from the fact that they don’t have a AA filter (just as the Leica M9) … it makes a big difference already, add to that the added 3D aspect from Foveon and I think we have a real winner here.

    I don’t think it’s comparable to a 40+ MP Medium format camera tough … in my experience you can also easily double the size from these cameras , so a 40+ MP camera will easily give you 80MP files (if needed), the SD1 will give you 30MP, maybe 40MP max, which is totally sufficient tough for most applications … my major problem with the first generation Foveon was that if you doubled the size it was only still a 10MP image. Normally for editorial projects (in offset printing) I start from 16 or 20MP which I interpolate to 30MP to reach printing resolution.SD1 will be able to reach 30MP easily so it will be a realistic option for projects.

  25. NewbieSD9 says:

    Oooops Sorry … getting too excited.

    So long as SD1 can get near a Pentax 645D 40MP, Hassy H4D-40 40MP in large print, it will be an amazing cam .

    I do think the 3 layer Foveon is an equalizer over the 1 layer sensors on the Pentax & Hassy. That’s why i think IF Sigma manage to release a MF Foveon in two years it will be out of this world.

  26. NewbieSD9 says:

    Just to add Hasslebald in 2011 are hoping to get away from their Beyer sensor and into a more Foveon like.

    Currently Hassy are just using a larger Beyer sensor with more MP … there is still interpolation .. i e we are really not getting the truth.

    I think in larger prints a Hassy would show less pixelation, thats where it would own the SD1. But in terms of subtle nuances, tones i think a 3 layer non Beyer sensor on the S1 beats a 1 layer Beyer of the Hassy.
    That’s why i think the SD1 will deliver where the Beyer Pentax 645D & Hassy H4D cant. And that’s why Hassy are hoping to move away from their Beyer sensor.

  27. For me Sigma SD1 is not really fighting with medium formats as they have much larger sensors and DOF WILL look so much cooler on those – and lenses from Hassy is indeed in another class. I’m sure we will get a pretty different picture, and I think that we will like the SD1 picture more – but resolution wise, when it comes to pure detail I’m pretty sure Hassy, Pentax, Leaf, Mamiya and Phase one will win. (we might stand a good chance on their older models with less MP’s, and we might win some parts of whatever competition we play)

    So, Sigma is fighting fairly with the best of 35mm sized cameras – but I must add that me myself and I would like a much larger sensor than todays. 35% sounds much but it’s still far from full frame. That said, I’m extremely excited with the current evolution. :)

  28. Christoph Schweiger, have no idea – would be nice if it increased some.

  29. Bengt Werner, I’ll try to show some of your work here on my site as they’re very special and I like them soo much! Stay tuned people! :)

  30. Marc says:

    MF glass is not necessarily that insanely sharper, they have huge sensors to beam on, so a lot of resolution is basically coming from sheer sensor size. Mind you that Hassi lenses are actually being made by Fuji … not that Fuji is a mediocre company … It just takes away from the mystique of the pre-digital Zeiss-made lineup.

    One company which should by now really be intrigued by the SD1 should be Leica … up until now their crazy expensive cameras found followers because of the abscence of the AA filter and of course because of the Leica glass, both made up for better Image quality, or at least enough differenciating factors from a typical Ca-Nikon file to make people swear by the Leica name again. I’m sure the SD1 will, in terms of IQ, color rendition, detail (factors which Leica fans care deeply about) outperform Leica’s M9 for instance. Would be great if Leica would embrace the Foveon sensor … it would further spur development of the Foveon platform.

  31. Marc, you’re talking about the Leica S2 right? Dpreview has a photo gallery up and I’m not impressed with what I see – they’re as flat as any, although the lens seams to be very very nice. But that’s a completely different story.

    The absence of AA filter gives a sharper and more alive look but it still lacks the dense feeling, nuanced feeling that a Sigma produces. Also at slightly higher ISO, mushiness / nutella is horrid.

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/0911/09111203leicas2gallery.asp

    Am I too picky? I also think the red looks really strange in those pictures. But the monochrome shot of the motorbike is really nice. :)

  32. Marc says:

    S2 … but moreover their M9, I have a feeling that the Foveon would produce the result the average ’35mm’ Leica user would die for.

    …. a revised S2 with a very large Foveon sensor to match the lenses would be lovely of course ; )

  33. Silvercat56 says:

    Carl Rytterfalk: Bengt Werner, I’ll try to show some of your work here on my site as they’re very special and I like them soo much! Stay tuned people! :)  

    Bengt Werner, I took a look to your gallery at fotosidan, very special pictures, where the SD14 gives its best; I like them all a lot , very impressive!

  34. NewbieSD9 says:

    Bengt Werner:
    Hi Carl!
    What wonderful news you told me this day I can hardly wait until it will be released, but be for sure, I will certainly buy SD1.
    My sale of SD14 picture is a good investment in the new Sigma camera. Ihope it will be less prone to dust on the sensor, and work faster.

    Bengt

    Hi Bengt :)

    I read Carl recommendation &
    I just saw your 20 pages on fotosidan.se
    I have only got to page 10 of 799 photos.

    Lovely photos … every single photo … lovely.

    You deserve a beer & hot dinner :)

  35. Idan says:

    I was planning to buy a new DSLR in a month or so. First I opted to the Nikon D7000 but after seeing the Sigma SD1, everything has changed. Honestly, we didn’t have any clue about sigma releasing a new flagship DSLR at Photokina. I am so excited about this new DSLR, and I am sure that it will be a great photography tool to travel with. February will come fast, and I am pretty sure that this is my next DSLR camera (owned a Canon 400D before). What can I say? – Thank you Sigma, finally a breath of fresh air!

  36. adrian says:

    I’m just on the first page of Bengt Werner’s gallery and I say, wow! I never thought the Sigma community is this strong in which, of course, includes Carl. :)

    Thanks JoshuaChuang for the post on Sigma history. Now, they make more sense.

  37. Lea Tippett says:

    I’m really looking forward to the release of the camera and it’s shear megapixel power for landscapers like myself.
    I’m hoping for a improvement in low light shooting as well but i guess we will just have to wait and see.
    I will have to work extra hours at work for this one so less photography for a while but i’m sure it will be worth it.
    The other obvious problem for me is i will be wanting to print larger! so i can see a larger printer and dare i say it a faster computer will also be required.
    Oh no whats the wife going to say!

  38. Eric says:

    Well, I am afraid I don’t fully share your enthusiasm about the SD1, although I must say that it seems a promising camera.

    But based on my experience with the SD14, I am slowly losing my “faith” in the Sigma/Foveon IQ. The problem for me is the red/magenta cast I have in almost every picture I take with my SD14.

    I bought it new around a year and a half ago and since then, I have never been able to reach the IQ I see in Carl’s, Laurence Matson’s or Bengt Werner’s photo, for example. How do they get these perfect colors in their image is still a mystery for me… In the last year and a half, I have made all the tests I could think of, playing with the ISO, shutter speed and aperture at different hours of the day. Nothing do the job. The biggest challenge has been high dynamic photos: if I expose to not blow the highlights, then the shadows become smudge with a magenta cast. If I expose to get rid of this cast in the shadows, then I blow the highlights…

    The only way around I have found is to take two photos, and combine them in photoshop. And when I do a panoramic, I have hours of work in front of me. This is really becoming annoying to me, to the point I am thinking of letting go Sigma.

    I must say that my equipment is limited to a tripod, an Acratech GP ballhead, a Nodal Ninja panoramic head, a Sigma 18mm – 50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro lens and my SD14. I do 95% of my shooting outside, shooting urban, crowds, landscape and animals most of the time.

    Unless you people share your advices and tips about how you get your photos right with a Sigma/Foveon camera, I am not sure I will become a SD1 user and invest that much money in a camera that could lead me into the same problem I have with my disappointing SD14.

    Thanks for your comments.

  39. Marc says:

    Hi Eric, maybe faulty camera … maybe download some sample RAW files from other users to cross-check?

  40. Scotsman says:

    That 1500 euro price point for me sounds a little doubtful for such an evolution of the foveon processor, but if true I’ll be buying for one for sure within 6 months of the SD1’s launch. But I do worry that to develop the files that it will create that even if or when I do upgrade my computer to something more powerful that SPP will struggle to develop the files fast enough for my patience. I can put up with it now on the SD14, but my wife even though she loves the camera and what it can do stays away from it because she hates the time it takes to develop the images.

  41. Eric, I’d LOVE to have a look at some of your RAW files – that way I could give some pointers and advice – even see if perhaps your camera is faulty in some way.

    Mail me if you’re interested and I’ll prepare an FTP for you.

  42. Eric says:

    Hi Carl,

    Thanks for your offer and the time you’ll spend on my files. I have sent you, at your rytterfalk.com email address, two samples of the same photo, part of a panoramic. One is exposed to keep details in the highlights (the section in the red circle in the accompanying JPEG file) and the same photo, this time exposed to get the shadows right. Details in the highlights are gone (as seen in the red circle in the accompanying JPEG file).

    Your advices are most welcome.
    Best regards!

  43. Marc says:

    Film cameras are comparatively affordable nowadays … maybe film it still is the ultimate, final destination regarding IQ ; ) Undeniably there’s a certain revival of the film format, and for fine art stuff (the large stuff you can put on gallery walls and sell expensive) it is still widely used.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Hasselblad-500C-M-500CM-80mm-f-2-8-T-CF-A12-MINT-/180566918034?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item2a0aa08392

  44. Gnarl says:

    Imagine Sigma uses the large SD1 sensor for a future DP-x camera body…what a big WOW – that would blow away ALL competing small camera/big sensor models on the market !
    Or how about a DP-x body with interchangeable lenses e.g. the Sigma SA mount so you can use all your existing DSLR lenses ?!
    Sony NEX lenses are also way bigger than the camera body…

    Here is a link, saying that the SD1 has 81% increase in linear resoltion compared to SD14/SD15 sensors.
    That IS a big step for FOVEON/SIGMA !

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/SD1/SD1A.HTM#

    The SIGMA future is bright and looks very promising again !

    Regards
    Gnarl

  45. Marc says:

    Guess the wait for the SD1 is gonna be quite long and torturous … just ordered a DP2s with viewfinder to live out some foveon magic. Only had the DP1 until now and its slowness was dissuasive, however if I go back to the files now they are great (maybe also perfected my ‘developer skills’ and workflow, getting more out of the files and seeing the foveon’s worth more). Anyhow the DP2s is gonna be faster, also looking forward to the viewfinder (I hate screen-framing, just hate it) so I guess I’m gonna try to stick to that camera and leave the Canon 5DMKII thingy at home and take the DP2s, just so as to perfect and train my ‘foveon eye’ ; )

    BTW funny rumor on a french website, Zeiss is visibly gonna abandon its Pentax lineup and get into developing lenses for Sigma SA mount … sounds great, apart the fact that they say that they have the confirmation from YOUR blog, maybe they misinterpreted something … but then they claim that there has been some intense rumour activity other than your blog around this.

    Let’s see what happens … if the SD1 delivers even halfways and unless Canik(s)ony&co unleash some kind of magic new sensor format there’s gonna be some a lot of activity and ecosystems around this sensor and camera, just like the IPhone ; )

  46. NewbieSD9 says:

    I hope Leica realise to get the best from their lenses, they need to move away from Bayer and into Foveon.

    I hope Hassleblad, Leaf, Mamiya and Phase One, realise they are only giving more pixels and larger surface area with Bayer.
    Therefore to bring back the glory days of MF flim look & MF film depth, the way forward is Foveon.

    I hope Zeiss reliase how amazing their lenses would look on a Foveon.

    I hope these companies have the smarts to realise that a 1 layer senosr as Bayer is limiting and a 3 layer seonsor like film … the Foveon is the way.

    I hope Sigma has the smarts to realise what they have in their hands, and form alliances with Leica & Hassleblad, Leaf, Mamiya and Phase One,
    and develop a Full Frame Foveon and a Medium Format Fovoen.

  47. Peter Pim says:

    Really world famous photographer using SIGMA

    What I don`t understand about SIGMA marketing and PR:
    Why couldn`t they manage to get at least one really famous professional photographer to be a Sigma user…?!?!
    That would have such an impact on the worldwide sales and finally with the announced SD1 it looks like now they have a camera any professional could live with when shooting very expensive models.
    Requirements:
    Let`s hope there will be great colours and absolute colour consistency from shot to shot and none of those “freeze” problems in continuous shooting that we all experienced with SD14. I expect being able to at least shot 10 RAW frames without having to watch the red blinking LED-being able to always go on shooting or watching pictures during saving would be a necessity for professional use. 3fps are enough I guess but more fps will help for better acceptance among professionals and amateurs alike.

    Most important: release date has to be as early as possible (not later than early summer 2011) or it will be a dead-born product !
    Just my 2cents

  48. Marc says:

    Actually Leica cameras are just as cumbersome to use as the Sigmas, the X1 for instance has notoriously slow AF, the M9, a 7000$ camera occasionally hangs up when you don’t do things in the right order … BUT Leica has that mythical reputation (and of course their lenses, which are just fantastic), BUT the fact that nobody from the Leica community picks up on the DP2 for instance is purely a form of snobism, because in my feeling the DP2 delivers the image quality that Leica should produce. The Foveon delivers the kind of image output Leica should be all about, but no Leica shooter would ever like to be seen with a Sigma camera, let alone Lenses … it’s just a big ‘no no’.

    I think there will be a lot of attitude adjustment toward Sigma … formerly known as a ‘budget lens’ company they decided to move forward and position themselves differently with very sophisticated products, I think it will take some time before the photographic community will acknowledge the merits of their new strategy, but it will ultimately happen … you can’t ignore a great product indefinitely. To be fair it also has to be said that the development of the Foveon platform was quite a bumpy ride, but now I think they developed and mastered the technology to a degree of maturity where it will make a true impact in the industry. From that point on I think we will see a lot of interesting development around the Foveon platform, including lenses and hopefully some licensing from other camera-makers that will jump on the Foveon bandwagon, like Leica should (really) do.

  49. 白狐少女 says:

    白狐少女在此飘过

  50. Eric says:

    Regarding the color cast problem I raised, this is a reply a got in another Sigma forum:

    « Sigma just needs to make SPP4 as good as Silkypix and the color problems everyone has would be eliminated. Since I started using Silkypix I don’t get a green cast or color blotches any more even at ISO 1600 ».

    Wanna share you experience with Silkypix and Sigma RAW?

  51. Carl, you talk about SD1 will be available until febraury 2011 (if i don’t read wrong your post). you’re sure of this date and the price you estimated to be (€. 1500,00)?
    i’m wainting your response ASAP. thanks for all.

  52. massimiliano amadori, No one knows for sure date or price as Sigma hasn’t officially put that out yet. But they gave some people numbers that they’re aiming for and Canon 7D price range wa one, and €1500 was another. Spring was one and february was another. So, that’s what we got.

  53. Hi Eric,

    Silkypix gives you really great control over most things in a Sigma shot. It’s still not a winner as it hasn’t full support for ALL cameras (like SD15) and therefore it’s for me kind of cumbersome to use.

    It also lack “that” that Sigma Photo Pro does – It’s like Sigma is using this secret recipe that everyone is trying to figure out and I think Silkypix is the one who has come closest to date.

    Check my youtube channel as I have some silkypix movies in there..

  54. There is a lot of ways to improve algorithms for better chrominanz and luminanz behaviour of photosites in a sensor design.
    With Foveon only Sigma SPP is developed from the source in conjunction with the engineers working on the sensor layout.
    All other software like Lightroom, Photoshop, SilkyPix, viewer like xnView, etc…work only with RAW files from Sigma cameras.
    As far as I know Sigma is not giving the SDK (software developer kit)
    to any other company. Comparable with Apple QT and ProRes or the RED raw camera files: for years only Apple and RED had the inside knowledge to convert from RAW to a real picture and other companys had to estmate their products adjustment.
    Maybe this explains what Carl named the “THAT”factor or the WOW! in the foveon pictures from SPP…
    Let`s hope they continue that quality with the upcoming SD1 !

  55. suddenly “nice”, you’re right. And I hope that Sigma would open their format some, perhaps even make it open source! – I love open source and I’d love the firmware to be somewhat open as well. :)

  56. this isn’t real “suddenly?” (this is your name?). silkypix maybe that haven’t SDK from SIGMA, but if you try it, you can view with your eyes large difference with SPP. last night, i’m out for week-end (past on garda lake), i’ve installed SPP 4.2 (mac version) on my imac and i open same photo in silkypix and spp (this version is better than older, this is truth), but the difference between 2 product leave again. the RED and GREEN cast, that SPP show in most case (direct sunlight over red jacket of my son), aren’t in silkypix. maybe, most of person that write in this discussion wouldn’t spend money for PRO software and choose the free choise (SPP). but isn’t a choise, this is only budget problem.

  57. escuse me if i’ve go OT, but i’m really need a sample RAW PACK for SD15 and i would have info by you CARL (or anything that have SD15), if there are the possibilities to have some RAW (400, 800, 1600 iso max) to evaluate the buy of this product (that i’ve found at interesting price in german).
    regards

  58. Anonymous says:

    @Carl
    You`re right (as always ;-) RED and APPLE now hand out the SDK to other company to expand the user base for their products. For Example video files with ProRES (Apple Codec) still look best on a MAC whereas the Windows conversion hasn`t been improved since a long time.
    The same RED RAW files look different depending on what product was used for the conversion/transcoding process.

    @Massimiliano
    I regard the RAW conversion as one step in a chain of personal decisions, where the 1st conversion offer from the Software is just the starting point. My taste may also be different from day to day or depending on the image: in a night street scene with strong green cast from fluorescents I want to keep this special Green…
    I agree with you Massimiliano, that with Silkypix often you get more pleasing results colour-wise easier/faster than with SPP. It seems as if SilkyPix is always working like SPP in the 50 ISO mode with strong colour saturation where SPP offers more subdued colours until you push saturation manually to where Sikypix already is.
    Concerning the noise/grain I mostly prefer what SPP does though.

  59. @anonymous
    you’ve right! i hate silkypix noise/grain control (let your photo similar to plastic, but in glamour shot this is a small trouble). for the rest, if you’ve many time to find perfect control on every photo with SPP, i’m happy for you. in my experience i don’t find never that look best with SPP (i write about interpretation of various color tonality) than those developed by silkypix, but i’m interested to view some RAW that you transform in JPEG that are better than this (you can send me RAW to my e-mail amax2000@libero.it) i develop with silkypix. if you want i’m waiting for you. regards.

  60. an image is better than 1000 words
    [img]http://www.rytterfalk.com/wp-content/garda.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.rytterfalk.com/wp-content/garda1.jpg[/img]
    [img]http://www.rytterfalk.com/wp-content/garda2.jpg[/img]
    this image was developed by SILKYPIX DEVELOPER STUDIO PRO 4.1.35.2 – mac version

  61. Mauersegler says:

    Hi Carl

    There is a good interview with Sigma Chief Operating Officer Kazuto Yamaki over at DPreview. Seems they try to get everything right this time.

    My only critic on the SD-1 specs is that Sigma joined the megapixel race. Most standard slr user won`t need that much resolution. A 8 MP camera would be plenty for me, but that is what the market requires I guess.

    The new sensor is close to canons APS-H 27.9 x 18.6 mm now.
    The best thing with the new sensor size is that a 17mm/18mm Standard zoom is now a decent wideangle.

    Also have you tried the new SPP 4.2. Rumors are that it is quicker.

    Regards

  62. hi Mauersegler, I have tried the new SPP 4.2 but not enough. :) Will make a note here somewhere if I find it to differ in any specific way. (Like speed)

  63. Mick says:

    Seems as if the SD1 would match my personal demands but there is one big wish (hope Sigma does read this):
    Don’t cover it completely with black rubber. Make it the most sexy slr camera on earth by letting the metal framework partially shine through.
    I’m really enamoured of its look!

    [img]http://www.rytterfalk.com/wp-content/sigma-sd1-magnesium.jpg[/img]

  64. Mick, I had the opportunity to sit down and talk to Mr Kazuto Yamaki and I specifically mentioned this to him, I too think that this metal version is so so nice! Really beautiful and I really would like my own to look like that. Perhaps a special edition? :)

    So, yes. They know.

  65. Michael Farrier says:

    This new sensor 24x16mm improves the lenses use .
    The sigma 15-30 x1.5 = 22.5 – 45mm. much better.
    wider angle. However F.F. would be better.

  66. Frits Thomsen says:

    Might be here before anyone expected :)
    http://www.sigmaphoto.com/shop/sd1-dslr-sigma

  67. frankweir@yahoo.com says:

    Frits….THAT’S interesting! I wonder when they put that date there? Fall, 2010….hmmmm….

  68. Frits Thomsen says:

    Sorry it was a typo :) it has been corrected now ..
    expected early 2011

  69. Vlad says:

    Hi, Carl. Is it possible to tell us what happened with Eric’s problem? I am really interested to know what happened. thanks.

  70. Matthias says:

    Carl seems to be busy testing the SD1…

  71. r_jak says:

    I think that would be better Sigma to launch the SD-1 with SA, Nikon and Canon mount. It would allow the Nikon-Canon users to buy a second body for their systems (an SD-1 of course) and eventually gradually to migrate to Sigma. In my case I’m considering to buy a D7000 because I have a few F mount lenses (Nikkor and Tamron). If I could use my lenses in a Sigma I probably will buy an SD-1 and then a few Sigma lenses.

  72. John says:

    I would really be delighted if the SD1 comes out with Canon’s C mount or Nikon’s F mount options! It would be the perfect marriage of body and glass! :)

  73. PeteD says:

    For the second time now I’ve sent an email to Samyang Optical of Korea urging them to consider making their lenses available with the Sigma SA mount.
    They have recently released two very well priced lenses, an 85mm f1.4 and a 14mm F2.8. The 14mm lens they make is outstanding from a resolution standpoint (more than adaquate for the SD1 I suspect) although I understand there is no electronic coupling to the camera available and because of the bulbous front element the user has to make their own arrangements for filters to be used.
    Whilst the distortion characteristics of this lens are difficult to deal with and would discount it for architectural use most of the remaining specifications are very acceptable especially the price.

  74. Timber says:

    I just want to make a comment regarding Depth of field. In a test comparing Nikon D200 to Sigma SD14 it was found that the Sigma camera created more depth of field when the same lens and f stop were used on both cameras.

    I submit that the reason for this is not sensor size differences, but rather the fact that the Foveon sensor can record a smaller circle of confusion than the Bayer sensor.

    I just wanted to record this on the internet, somewhere where Sigma owners can read it.

    • Hi Timber, we’re reading alright. :) May I ask if you have any pictures to back up your claim? And when you say “more” depth of field, I just want to make sure that what you mean is the area in focus appears to be shorter at the same aperture. Right? If the opposite was your claim then it would be pure sensor size and everything would be normal..

      It’s quite a bit of difference between Sigma Sensor size (x1,7) and D200 which is x1.5..

  75. Richard W says:

    9k for Sigma SD1 is rich for my blood, I’m giving up my dream of owning it. i have a Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM converted to SA mount for sale. Sigma lens will never match the same performance of a Canon USM AF and lens quality of this walk around lens. I had this lens converted by a russian engineer. The lens itself goes for 455.00$ alone nowadays, Make me an offer no less than $550 as this is one of a kind, you can’t just buy it. email: ppsx@yahoo.com

  76. Dennis says:

    In the light of the SD1 launch disaster I thought it was worth bringing Carl’s 2010 post to the top. I know he’s holding fire now till the dust settles, but if only Sigma had realised his reasoning was totally correct at the time ….

    Carl 27 September 2010
    “For me Sigma SD1 is not really fighting with medium formats as they have much larger sensors and DOF WILL look so much cooler on those – and lenses from Hassy is indeed in another class. I’m sure we will get a pretty different picture, and I think that we will like the SD1 picture more – but resolution wise, when it comes to pure detail I’m pretty sure Hassy, Pentax, Leaf, Mamiya and Phase one will win. (we might stand a good chance on their older models with less MP’s, and we might win some parts of whatever competition we play)

    So, Sigma is fighting fairly with the best of 35mm sized cameras – but I must add that me myself and I would like a much larger sensor than todays. 35% sounds much but it’s still far from full frame. That said, I’m extremely excited with the current evolution. :)”

    • LionelB says:

      10 out of 10 for Carl…
      Time again for some positive ideas though. Most of the time we crop our 3:2 output to more like 4:3. All those very expensive pixels thrown away. About 11%. Take the DP2 sensor and stretch it to the same surface area as the SD1 sensor (+29%) but keep the detector density on the chip the same as the existing DP series. The 20cm x 15cm print I hold in my hand will then contain 44% more pixel data than the identical scene taken with a DP2.
      Modest but nice and all within technology that Sigma are very comfortable with. Introduce a little SD14 dirtiness and there is enough to justify calling it the DP3. First one off the line for me please … :-)

  77. Dennis says:

    Agreed. A refined DP3 with a slight increase in pixel count (to 6>8mp), and a better screen, would do me just fine. And it could allow Sigma to compete with some valid differentiation in the top end of that growing market sector.

    Let’s face it, the $D1 (Foveonic :-) can’t compete with what’s coming soon in the DSLR full frame market because it’s balance between cost and perfomance is flawed. So a refined DP camera may be their sweet spot if they can price it, not low, but realistically? That’s all I’ll need from $igma in future!

  78. Person says:

    agreed. one of the few positive things to come out of yamaki’s twitter over the past few days is that they are still working on new cameras.

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